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Solecist Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
22584
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Posted - 2015.04.30 15:11:48 -
[1] - Quote
This reminds me of politicians.
Taking a superficial part of the problem ... ... declaring it the problem ... ... thus having superficial discussions ... ... bringing up at best superficial solutions which do not touch the actual problem ... ... and then wondering why it doesn't help.
Superficial thinking leads to superficial discussions and superficial solutions.
Good luck anyhow.
Oh and, tbh, you know what else?
This is carebearlogic.
Congratulations.
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Solecist Project
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Posted - 2015.05.02 14:47:26 -
[2] - Quote
Jori McKie wrote:@Basil Pupkin
I'm not sure, is your post sarcasm or are you in some kind of twisted dual Universe where everything is the opposite?
As Kaarous suggested, go check his posting history. Be warned that it's full of hate, lies, superficial crap and hypocrisy.
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Solecist Project
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Posted - 2015.05.03 09:13:30 -
[3] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:One thing I have noticed throughout this thread is few, if any, mention skill. I don't mean SP, I mean skill. Skill as a pilot is as much, if not more, important than sp. You can have a bil sp all in combat and someone with a few mil sp that's a better pilot can beat you. Skill and experience are a lot more valuable than SP. SP just dictates what you can use...not how well you can use it. Now take a good guess why people leave it out ... ... and instead blame everything else. :)
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Posted - 2015.05.03 09:24:54 -
[4] - Quote
Kamala wrote:Kashadin wrote:The problem with this argument is that you can't bring to bear every SP that your character has available to them in every single fight.
A toon who has 100mill SP but has all those put into mining and production will lose to someone who only has 2mill SP that are dedicated to flying a combat ship if those players were to fight (at a purely SP based combat scenario) because while the 100mill SP toon out-classes the 2mill SP one in age and SP, those SP are doing nothing when it comes to that toon shooting a gun or flying a ship. rofl That same old argument: "B-but an industrialist with more SP will lose to a focused low SP combat pilot" How about making a fair comparison, two PvP combat pilots, one with 100 mil SP, the other with 2 mil. Result: barring a miracle, the 2 mil pilot is taking a trip to the clone bay. There is nothing fair about this comparison. You are either a hypocrite, a liar or should not write such statements.
If you have minmatar frigate at V ... ... and catch you in a gallente frigate ... ... then you're still toast.
People who only look at numbers and don't bother to go into detail ... ... lack any ground to talk about it ... ... because they aren't capable of grasping what they are talking about.
So a combat pilot with 100 mill SP and a combat pilot with 2 mill SP can go EITHER WAY, because you are not specifying which skills you are talking about.
But the best part is that this is nothing more than a bullshit argument ... ... because you won't see 100mill SP people fighting 2mill SP people anyway.
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Posted - 2015.05.03 09:41:18 -
[5] - Quote
Kamala wrote:Sol, when you stop littering your posts with insults and flamebait, then you will deserve a response. I will as soon as people like you stop being liars and hypocrites.
See your post as example.
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Posted - 2015.05.03 09:42:41 -
[6] - Quote
Kamala wrote:Your sarcasm is noted, Gully. However, it doesn't need 'deep PvP insight' to know what I said is true. And that's why you get called a liar and a hypocrite.
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Posted - 2015.05.03 10:33:19 -
[7] - Quote
Kamala wrote:Actually I quite like the skill system. It beats grinding. But it does create the inescapable fact that newer players can never catch up with older players. I don't know if this puts off new players, it didn't bother me much tbh. Except when they reach [racial] frigate V. Small blasters V. Small blaster spec V.
etc. etc.
I don't understand how people can be so completely disconnected from reality. Do you run around, complaining that children have it unfair compared to adults?
It's how the world works. When you start doing something, you do not know how to do it well until you get better.
Argueing about this is nonsense and just shows that you are either not in a position to do so, are a hypocrite or simply do not care about facts and only about being right.
Ignorance is Strength, ey?
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23215
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Posted - 2015.05.03 11:30:38 -
[8] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Here is a problem that exists right now.
The skill wall is too low to sit in a battleship. Newbies train into it with a T1 modules fail fit. Put all their ISK into it and die in this huge ship that should be able to tank in their minds. Quite a few rage quit after losing everything like that. That's not the fault of game mechanics. It's the fault of the griefers who tell noobs to skill for them ... ... so they can run lvl4s ASAP.
Social engineering ... not game mechanics.
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Posted - 2015.05.03 13:46:33 -
[9] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Here is a problem that exists right now.
The skill wall is too low to sit in a battleship. Newbies train into it with a T1 modules fail fit. Put all their ISK into it and die in this huge ship that should be able to tank in their minds. Quite a few rage quit after losing everything like that. What do battleship SP requirements have to do with that??? The simple rule 'Don't fly what you can't afford to lose' is everywhere. If someone breaks it, and loses everything, there's really nothing anyone could've done to help the silly fellow. If you take that lightly a game that is well-known to be hard and harsh, you would just as easily stick a C-Type invuln to your missioning destroyer, with the same result. FYI, it requires less SP than flying a BS. Well ... disregarding context is it true that too many new players jump to battleships directly.
There can't be that many reasons for people to do so. Whatever they think, though, someone has to reinforce that wrong belief one way or the other. And there we reach the griefers who tell new players to head straight to battleships and do lvl4s.
New players like will most likely not even know about "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" ... ... simply again because the griefers aren't telling them.
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Posted - 2015.05.03 13:47:46 -
[10] - Quote
El Taron wrote:I don't understand why some people don't get that you can have a successful pvp career just flying frigs (and T2 variants)/destroyers and cruisers.
They don't require much sp, they're extremely disposable and still very effective. Infact with how long bigger ships take to warp around and the general community's unwillingness to engage in decent fights, I rarely use anything else.
There is clearly people in this thread who haven't participated in a lot of pvp where decision making counts for much.
This topic has gone well off topic though thanks to someone who is completely wrong about how big a factor SP is, it was about how risk averse the community has become and how hard it is to get fights. I know right?
Ferni has killed drifters in a venture ... ... yet people everywhere insist "bigger is better" and keep losing.
Even though Ferni can be a hating carebear... ... she deserves credit for that.
Frigates are awesome ... ... people are nuts.
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Posted - 2015.05.03 14:05:48 -
[11] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Well ... disregarding context is it true that too many new players jump to battleships directly. I'm no PVE expert but I think that if you're a new player doing missions, doing them in a t1-fit battleship could make sense, especially because of the tank. When I started almost 2 years ago, I missioned for a couple of weeks. I could manage L3s in cruisers, but when I got to battlecruisers it made things significantly easier. On the other hand, when I started PVPing I immediately went back to frigs. I did eventually lose 2 BCs to neuting rats (didn't know I had an excellent chance of warping out by spamming warp, even if they were neuting me dry). I have to admit I definitely raged a bit (especially when I lost the second one in the exact same way LOL I'm dumb), but at the same time it was one of my most intense EVE experiences. I hate turning new players away, but if the 'losing lots of stuff' part of EVE doesn't appeal to you (after some initial rage), you probably won't enjoy the game so much anyway. But the issue is that they do not even know what they are doing. They are given bad advise.
You have to consider that the mind of a new player mostly is an empty glass.
The fact that people tell noobs to head directly to lvl4s is bad. It does not actually promote the game and people don't see much of it.
The fact that people tell noobs to keep running missions is bad. CCP confirms that. Social interaction is good, running missions for money all day isn't.
The fact that people go EASYMODE from the early on is bad. Like ... they are being told to go to battlecruisers for lvl3s.
Why? Because it's *easy*. Because it's a fast way to make money.
Of course there's no doubt that our PvE is lame as hell ... ... but for a new player it's still better to play something challenging.
All the other games are easy enough already.
It's carebearing griefers who badly influence the early days of new players.
So it's true ... battleships are way too easy to reach ... ... but fixing that would not address the actual problem.
Btw ... do lvl3s in thrashers ...
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Posted - 2015.05.03 15:11:52 -
[12] - Quote
Anuri Suaraj wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Kamala wrote:Actually I quite like the skill system. It beats grinding. But it does create the inescapable fact that newer players can never catch up with older players. I don't know if this puts off new players, it didn't bother me much tbh. Except when they reach [racial] frigate V. Small blasters V. Small blaster spec V. etc. etc. I don't understand how people can be so completely disconnected from reality. Do you run around, complaining that children have it unfair compared to adults? It's how the world works. When you start doing something, you do not know how to do it well until you get better. I think you should read twice before retorting like that. Generally, every PC game ever, and every MMO ever, works on the principle that the more you play it, and the better you play it, the faster you acquire skills, items etc... Whereas EVE is the only game in which a person that has logged in once 5 years ago, created an account and subscribed for a year can have more skills than a player that's been playing the game actively for the last six months or so. The only way a newer player catches up is if the older player drops his subscription for a while. I'm not claiming that the system is bad right off the bat, but I am saying it is different and weird and therefore should remain open for discussion. Also, I don't get the children-adults analogy. What does the general process of human aging have to do with EVE? Are you sure?
It rather seems that the more people play, the harder it gets to level up. Not the other way round.
This is a mechanism that keeps people addicted. The first fixes come fast but continuously it gets harder and harder to feel satisfied.
EVE is different because it does not use such mechanics to make people addicted. The skill system is different, as it progresses over time without the need for grinding.
And new players do not need to catch up! besides this being wrong anyway, they have their own generation of people they are on par with!
It's realistic! You get born into a world and have to deal with the fact that there are older people who know more and better.
EVE mimics the real world, unlike all these other games.
It's great as it is. The idea of being unable to catch up is bullshit. If this was true it would have been an issue already years ago.
The unfairness is illusionary. EVE mimics the real world with this and it's right to do so.
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Posted - 2015.05.04 06:42:27 -
[13] - Quote
lol people still talking. Now with even more hating carebears.
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Posted - 2015.05.04 09:33:18 -
[14] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Basil, it's ok to be bad at EVE PVP, really.
You don't need to post walls of text to feel better. Come on, let it go, admit you have no idea of what you're sperging about. I certainly wish I had no idea, I'd be a bit less unhappy if I had no idea, but unfortunately I have a perfect grasp, as usual. Anyone reading beyond this ... ... not seeing in what kind of world the poster lives in ... ... and still responding to him ... ... should slap himself and wake up.
There is no way of educating someone like that.
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Posted - 2015.05.04 09:38:47 -
[15] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Anyone reading beyond this ... ... not seeing in what kind of world the poster lives in ... ... and still responding to him ... ... should slap himself and wake up.
There is no way of educating someone like that. Naturally, since you confuse trying to hammer lies into people with education, it will only work on sheep. Anything you say only serves yourself. There is no way of making you aware of mistakes, no matter what, because you dismiss anything based on the idea that You simply *must* be right.
Also do you not understand that logic always works. Just because it makes sense, though, doesn't mean it's right.
Ignoring lack of information and dismissing what others say, which would add to your process of reasoning ... is what you do.
Your superiority complex is so gigantic, I actually feel sad for you.
Thus there is no way of educating you.
You should be avoided ... ... but instead people reply to you ... ... making your issue just worse every single time.
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Posted - 2015.05.04 09:46:38 -
[16] - Quote
No, you're not.
What you do is trying to make others aware of your imaginary fact of being right.
No where am I saying "I'm leet" either. You are imagining that. It is not written anywhere.
All I am doing is trying to tell others that you are incapable of being reasonable outside of that limited scope you have, which you are completely unable to widen.
You feel attacked all the time, because it's the easier way to deal with what people are telling you.
You keep unknowingly making things up, which were never said or meant, just because it helps you keeping your mental status quo.
Hey, at least I've tried. I just wished other people wouldn't make your issue worse.
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Posted - 2015.05.04 10:06:01 -
[17] - Quote
Quote:Not literally, of course, This just proves my point. You imagine things that are not being written.
With the "not literally"-excuse you can come up with ANYTHING ... ... and read ANYTHING YOU WANT into the words others write.
And of course you read things into it that help you prove your points.
Unlike what you imagine ... ... I mean things the way I write them.
I am not projecting anything of myself onto you. It's the other way round.
And telling me "your kind loves it" just further proves that I am right. You are incapable of reading what is being written and your hate and prejudice makes it impossible to stay neutral.
And I'm not your buddy. Belitteling someone just proves my point even more.
So far, all you do is proving my point.
Massive superiority complex. Ignorance, Dunning Krueger.
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Posted - 2015.05.04 10:42:43 -
[18] - Quote
Emotional outbreak ... just look at your post.
Mothershipper.
A rationalisation attempt of "your kind", which does not change anything about it.
"the naivety" ... again, the belitteling.
You try to belittle someone as "emotional type" ... ... making yourself the, what? Rational type?
Then you'd just fall for the illusion that there is a thing as rationality without influence of feelings. You, though, in your own posts, show that you are incapable of that ... as I keep pointing out.
Everyone else can read through your posts and compare.
Good luck.
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Posted - 2015.05.04 10:55:12 -
[19] - Quote
Amy Undergood wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:The rest got properly ignored to divert attention from the real issue of utter lack of anything other than "cuz I'm leet"-class sentences. Your whole argument has always boiled down to because you say so. It's no different to what you claim of other people and you never offer any evidence to support your claims. To counter that, I'll just throw out there, that there is no SP wall because I say so. Just as valid and much more realistic. As with your argument, no counter statements will prove anything other than the correctness of my view and all evidence will be construed to support my view also. CCP, make skill training harder. It's way too easy at the moment and vets should gain some advantage from the time they put in. At the moment, any new player can come in and beat them. It's not fair. there needs to be a skillpoint wall. Just wait.
He will read things into your words you haven't written ... ... and belittle you.
But it's us who are projecting ... ... and he doesn't suffer from a massive superiority complex ... ... or dare I say Dunning Krueger.
If I am an "emotional type" has he says so negatively ... ... then I can at least say I'm not half a person, suppressing half of my humanity.
Just realise that trying to teach him something only makes it worse.
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Posted - 2015.05.04 11:09:15 -
[20] - Quote
No, sorry, argueing with someone who suffers a superiority-complex and dunning krueger at your level is not a good thing to do.
Worsening your condition is the last thing I want to be a part of. There are no personal attacks involved here, this is just how it is.
I suggest everyone else to consider this for him more than for yourself. Proof can be found in his posting history all over the place.
And there wasn't a single personal attack coming from me, I simply kept stating what can be seen right in front of everyone's eyes.
Now I'll go do something more productive, because attemping to educate the masses to avoid you is equally pointless.
But I've tried.
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Posted - 2015.05.05 01:06:11 -
[21] - Quote
Anuri Suaraj wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Anuri Suaraj wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Kamala wrote:Actually I quite like the skill system. It beats grinding. But it does create the inescapable fact that newer players can never catch up with older players. I don't know if this puts off new players, it didn't bother me much tbh. Except when they reach [racial] frigate V. Small blasters V. Small blaster spec V. etc. etc. I don't understand how people can be so completely disconnected from reality. Do you run around, complaining that children have it unfair compared to adults? It's how the world works. When you start doing something, you do not know how to do it well until you get better. I think you should read twice before retorting like that. Generally, every PC game ever, and every MMO ever, works on the principle that the more you play it, and the better you play it, the faster you acquire skills, items etc... Whereas EVE is the only game in which a person that has logged in once 5 years ago, created an account and subscribed for a year can have more skills than a player that's been playing the game actively for the last six months or so. The only way a newer player catches up is if the older player drops his subscription for a while. I'm not claiming that the system is bad right off the bat, but I am saying it is different and weird and therefore should remain open for discussion. Also, I don't get the children-adults analogy. What does the general process of human aging have to do with EVE? Are you sure? It rather seems that the more people play, the harder it gets to level up. Not the other way round. This is a mechanism that keeps people addicted. The first fixes come fast but continuously it gets harder and harder to feel satisfied. EVE is different because it does not use such mechanics to make people addicted. The skill system is different, as it progresses over time without the need for grinding. And new players do not need to catch up! besides this being wrong anyway, they have their own generation of people they are on par with! It's realistic! You get born into a world and have to deal with the fact that there are older people who know more and better. EVE mimics the real world, unlike all these other games. It's great as it is. The idea of being unable to catch up is bullshit. If this was true it would have been an issue already years ago. The unfairness is illusionary. EVE mimics the real world with this and it's right to do so. How about NO. EVE does not mimic the real world in any shape or form for several reasons. In the real world just because you are older it doesn't automatically mean that you are better than someone in something. While experience does count, things like talent, dedication and hard work count for more than a person's age. Also in the real world you don't advance yourself by sitting on your behind but by doing stuff. In EVE I get no bonus whatsoever on training of say the Gallente Destroyer skill even though I'm flying such a destroyer while I'm training the said skill. Basically EVE suggest that you can train something just by reading a book about it without ever actually doing or trying to do the said something. And also that the person who starts reading first will automatically be better at that thing than the person who started to read about it last. If only I had started to read about Football before Messi, or about Electrical engineering before Tesla, I could have been both the world's greatest footballer and the world's greatest inventor at the same time. EVE has nothing to do with real life so please stop deluding yourself. I generally dislike EVE's SP system because it accounts only for the natural progression of time and whether or not a player has an active subscription going. Bottom line is, if I'm flying around and shooting my railgun at people than I would expect my hybrid turret skill to level up faster than the guy's who's training the same thing by staying logged off, parked on his couch, and with his eyes glued to dr. Oz. With that said, the guy whining about SP being crucial is wrong. SP is only one variable in a pretty big equation. Although the same guy is right about you being sort of a drama queen. In no way or form.
Except when it comes to natural laws, where the strong/adaptive kill the weak.
Except when it comes to numbers, when people group up and crush smaller entities.
Except when it comes to social engineering, to manipulate people into doing something.
Except when it comes to social interaction and the butterfly effect, which shows that just like in the real world, everyone is connected with everyone else.
Except for when new players enter the game, who start with nothing and have to grow, (via SP and experience) and learn how to survive (just because "civilisation" seems to remove this, it's still natural) and compete with the older generation.
In no way or form... mhm.
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Posted - 2015.05.05 07:09:56 -
[22] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Deuce McGuilicuddy wrote:I'm pretty sure no matter how much evidence and logic you throw at Basil, you will always get the same response from him. Pretty much everyone in the thread has argued with him and refuted every point he made, and he hasn't even lost his stride. He's made himself look so ignorant I almost feel bad for him. Then I remember he plays this same game in every thread that he posts in. I don't even think he's a troll. I truly believe that he is, in fact, that dense. Delusional, IMO. But hey...a word that starts with 'd'. The sad part is that people will complain about me calling it out what it is.
A mental health issue.
He's either a great actor, or ill. "You emotional type". Just turn that around and look at what it says about him.
He's not rational. That's nuts. There is no "emotional type". Every single human being is driven by their feelings, including all those people who suppress them because of ... experiences.
He's so much off, he thinks of himself higher than the rest. Higher than normally functioning human beings, compared to him who is - at best - half of that without realising.
Every one of us is, in his view, underneath him. He's so completely locked up inside his logic ... ... that no matter what ... ... either one breaks him and makes him show his suppressed side ... ... or he'll just continue this way.
I wasn't kidding or trolling when I said avoiding him would be a good thing.
IRL I would stay far away from such a person, because that guy would kill you if he figured out a way to get away with it.
As I said ... either a great actor, or he should visit a mental health institute.
Ban me all you want for this. It's not an attack, it's simply the truth.
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23578
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Posted - 2015.05.05 14:32:33 -
[23] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Vicky Somers wrote:Eve is all about telling other players how to play the damn game! Of course! Ever since I've subbed, I've had a slew of people tell me this and that and how I should play. Even this thread is someone telling me how I should play. Now I've started telling people too! Is it "telling people how to play" ... ... when you tell them not to tell you how to play?
DOES YELLING ANNOY YOU ?
LIKE MY IDEA BELOW AND I WILL REMOVE IT !!
Corpses4Drifters
CLICK THE LINK !! YOU LIKE THE IDEA !!
FOR EVEN MORE PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT !!
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